Why would St. Jane have been warned against an excessive use of her imagination? What is harmful about it? And why did St. Francis temper it with suggesting something brief; what is helpful about it?What does it mean for our will to keep pace with our affections? What is the relationship between our understanding and our affections?What is true liberty/freedom? How do we know when we are acting in the law of love?What does it mean “for freedom Christ has set us free”?Were you surprised to read that
St. Francis laughed? What is the importance of laughter in our life? And can it be unhealthy at times?
Jul 5, 6:24 AM
SrSusan (Guest): newsletter for chat https://visitationspirit.org/2024/07/newsletter-for-chat-july-7/
Newsletter for Chat July 7 | Visitation Spirit
Jul 5, 6:25 AM
SrSusan (Guest): Sun July 7 at 730 pm est
ul 7, 4:34 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Q1 Why would St. Jane have been warned against an excessive use of her imagination?
Jul 7, 4:34 PM
Simone (Guest): it can lead to ourselves instead to Christ
l 7, 4:36 PM
Carol (Guest): It is easy for the imagination to get out of control and you might be tricked into thinking what you are imagining is what God is actually saying
Jul 7, 4:36 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Dawn hi
Jul 7, 4:36 PM
Simone (Guest): it is a tricky small line sometimes with using imagination in prayer. Sometimes it can be so helpful to come closer to Christ – and sometimes I find people loose themselves in them
Jul 7, 4:37 PM
Simone (Guest): totally agree Carol
l 7, 4:36 PM
Simone (Guest): it is a tricky small line sometimes with using imagination in prayer. Sometimes it can be so helpful to come closer to Christ – and sometimes I find people loose themselves in them
Jul 7, 4:37 PM
Simone (Guest): totally agree Carol
Jul 7, 4:37 PM
Simone (Guest): I often ask ‘ how do you know that Jesus is not just your adult-imaginary friend?”
l 7, 4:37 PMCarol (Guest): It is hard for me since writing is a work of the imagination. II have to remember tompull it back in prayer
ul 7, 4:38 PM
Carol (Guest): LOL Simone
Jul 7, 4:38 PM
Simone (Guest): you mean journaling?
Jul 7, 4:38 PM
Simone (Guest): It’s funny Carol – but also interesting that people often cannot answer that
Jul 7, 4:38 PM
SrSusan (Guest): excessive use of imagination
Jul 7, 4:38 PM
Carol (Guest): I mean actually writing fiction, particularly religious fiction
Jul 7, 4:38 PM
SrSusan (Guest): might lead to distractions not prayer
Jul 7, 4:39 PM
SrSusan (Guest): q What is harmful about it? And why did St. Francis temper it with suggesting something brief; what is helpful about it?
Jul 7, 4:39 PM
Carol (Guest): If you find yourself “bossing” Jesus around, it’s you
Jul 7, 4:39 PM
Simone (Guest): I understand that writing is for some like prayer – but using imagination for religious writing is different – specially when it is fictional as you said
ul 7, 4:40 PM
SrSusan (Guest): after all St Ignatius taught to use imagination
Jul 7, 4:40 PM
SrSusan (Guest): in meditation
Jul 7, 4:40 PMSrSusan (Guest): and St Francis was taught by Jesuits
ul 7, 4:41 PM
Carol (Guest): I particularly am drawn to Ignatian prayer and found my prayer life tookmoff when I used images as well as wirds
Jul 7, 4:41 PM
SrSusan (Guest): St Francis was all for moderation
Jul 7, 4:41 PM
Simone (Guest): I often thought of this connection and that this might have been the reason why he defended it so much
Jul 7, 4:41 PM
Dawn (Guest): I think of using imagination as a bridge, to bring me into his presence
Jul 7, 4:41 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Their is alot of miracle that saints have is given by jesus
ul 7, 4:41 PMSrSusan (Guest): like the idea of a bridge
Jul 7, 4:42 PMSimone (Guest): I find that imagination can lead me into his presence. And if we dedicate our imagination to the Holy Stpirit we can trust, that he is using it for an encounter with Christ
ul 7, 4:43 PMSrSusan (Guest): q What does it mean for our will to keep pace with our affections?
Jul 7, 4:43 PM
Simone (Guest): How wonderful when the Holy Spirit allows you for example to see the gaze of love on the face of Jesus –
Jul 7, 4:43 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes Betty. I especially like when the bleeding woman touched the hem of his cloth
Jul 7, 4:43 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Eyes can see ear can hear feet can walk all the miracle that jesus give us
Jul 7, 4:43 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, Simone, I see it that way too. And we leave room for hHim to take over
Jul 7, 4:44 PM
SrSusan (Guest): will and affections- that is something to think over
Jul 7, 4:45 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I guess our will controls our affections or rather thwe demonstration of them
Jul 7, 4:45 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes it is Sr
Jul 7, 4:45 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Their has miniseries name call one for isareal to take you walk in the faith of bible teaching and jesus times
Jul 7, 4:45 PM
Carol (Guest): It is
Jul 7, 4:45 PM
Simone (Guest): As for question 2 – I think that we could get swept away with our affections sometimes – but our will – is not translating these affections into actions of love for God and neighbour.. so we have to make sure.. that our affections and our will go in the same pace
ul 7, 4:45 PMCarol (Guest): And that we are not just idly imagining things
Jul 7, 4:46 PMSrSusan (Guest): the will is less volatile usually except maybe in very determined people
ul 7, 4:48 PMSimone (Guest): sometimes we think that our affections alone are already the prayer.. but if we do not engage the will – then it is not a fruitful prayer.. that’s why I think that St. Francis was so adamant about resolutions in the context of prayer
Jul 7, 4:48 PMSrSusan (Guest): good point Simone
ul 7, 4:50 PMSrSusan (Guest): q What is the relationship between our understanding and our affections?
ul 7, 4:51 PM
Simone (Guest): I think that understanding can lead to affections. For example.. when someone listens to a homily – and understands the actions of Jesus -why he did some things.. or sees his love clearer – this can lead to affections…of gratitude, love and raised surrender
Jul 7, 4:52 PM
Dawn (Guest): Im still thinking about relationship between relationship and affections
Jul 7, 4:52 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I guess understanding helps us grasp the cause and effect of our affections
Jul 7, 4:52 PM
Simone (Guest): but affections alone – do not impact understanding often.
l 7, 4:52 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Revered is what is that mean sr susan
Jul 7, 4:52 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you all
Jul 7, 4:52 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I have not thought of that relationship between them prior to this time
Jul 7, 4:52 PM
Carol (Guest): Affection might be the warm fuzzy feeling that does not last
Jul 7, 4:53 PM
Simone (Guest): the only way I can see that affections can have an impact on understanding- is in deep contemplation – when the love for God becomes an understanding of his heart
Jul 7, 4:53 PM
SrSusan (Guest): revererd is like respect but deeper
Jul 7, 4:54 PMSrSusan (Guest): Understanding is it not a gift or fruit of the Holy Spirit?
ul 7, 4:54 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Understanding is it not a gift or fruit of the Holy Spirit?
Jul 7, 4:55 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes Sr Susan
Jul 7, 4:55 PM
Simone (Guest): not a fruit .. but I think one of the 7 gifts at baptism
Jul 7, 4:55 PM
SrSusan (Guest): much different category than affections
Jul 7, 4:55 PM
Dawn (Guest): good connection
Jul 7, 4:55 PM
Carol (Guest): It is!
l 7, 4:55 PM
Ruth (Guest): I wonder if my name is at the top of the list because I am the last to sign in now and most of the time. I was busy trying to finish an email. Please pray that I do so — after the chat — with love and kindness even while challenging and cautioning. Thanks.
Jul 7, 4:55 PM
Bettychao (Guest): We have ask jesus for holy spirit to do Gods work
ul 7, 4:55 PMSimone (Guest): May God guide your words dear Ruth
ul 7, 4:56 PMSrSusan (Guest): so we call on the Holy Spirit to guide our affections too
Jul 7, 4:56 PM
Simone (Guest): I think everything in us should be under the guidance of the Holy Spirit
Jul 7, 4:56 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes
SrSusan (Guest): yes
Jul 7, 4:57 PM
SrSusan (Guest): q What is true liberty/freedom?
Jul 7, 4:57 PM
Simone (Guest): definitely not what the word understands as freedom
Jul 7, 4:57 PM
Carol (Guest): Being in Christ
ul 7, 4:58 PMSimone (Guest): what a sweet answer Carol
Jul 7, 4:58 PMSimone (Guest): I feel most free when I can live an area in my life with holy indifference
Jul 7, 4:58 PMDawn (Guest): Simone, did you mean world. I think so. the world will lead us astray
Jul 7, 4:59 PMSimone (Guest): oh sorry. YES Dawn.. I did mean the world
ul 7, 4:59 PMSimone (Guest): to be free FOR something has been a theme for me in the last years
Jul 7, 4:59 PMSimone (Guest): not only free from
ul 7, 5:00 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Jesus not only free us away from sin he make us free from satan tol
Jul 7, 5:00 PM
Simone (Guest): AMEN
Jul 7, 5:00 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes!
ul 7, 5:00 PM
Carol (Guest): If we listen with our hearts we will hesr
Jul 7, 5:01 PM
Simone (Guest): hear what Carol?
Jul 7, 5:01 PM
Simone (Guest): his voice?
Jul 7, 5:01 PM
Carol (Guest): His voice
ul 7, 5:02 PM
SrSusan (Guest): q How do we know when we are acting in the law of love?
Jul 7, 5:02 PMSimone (Guest): we surrender the outcome
ul 7, 5:03 PMSimone (Guest): can you define “law of love” maybe?
Jul 7, 5:04 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Jesus said the greatest commandment is to love God with our whole heart mind and soul and our neighbor as ourself
ul 7, 5:05 PM
SrSusan (Guest): so complete self giving
Jul 7, 5:05 PM
Simone (Guest): maybe when our actions are through HIM in us.. and not from our own desires
Jul 7, 5:05 PM
Carol (Guest): Like Jesus on the cross
ul 7, 5:06 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. complete self giving.. how sweet that sounds
Jul 7, 5:06 PM
Ruth (Guest): I’m back. Greetings everyone!
Jul 7, 5:06 PM
Dawn (Guest): sacrificial love is the law of love?
Jul 7, 5:07 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi again Ruth!
Jul 7, 5:08 PMSrSusan (Guest): I think we grow into that law of love
Jul 7, 5:09 PM
Carol (Guest): It is a lifelong journey
Jul 7, 5:09 PM
Bettychao (Guest): I love this song that is help me get more closed to divine mercy jesus
Jul 7, 5:09 PM
SrSusan (Guest): qWhat does it mean “for freedom Christ has set us free”?
ul 7, 5:10 PMBettychao (Guest): That means free from sin and evil
ul 7, 5:10 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes It is carol..
Jul 7, 5:10 PM
Carol (Guest): We are no longer held by sin so we are free to follow Him
ul 7, 5:11 PM
Simone (Guest): yes.. free from the shackles of sin.
Jul 7, 5:11 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes to all!
Jul 7, 5:11 PM
Simone (Guest): but also.. not to go back into slavery to new things
l 7, 5:12 PM
SrSusan (Guest): freedom is also liberty of spirit
Jul 7, 5:12 PM
Simone (Guest): what do you understand under ” liberty of Spirit” Sister?
Jul 7, 5:12 PM
SrSusan (Guest): St Jane recommended that and she herself grew into it with guidance from St Francis
Jul 7, 5:13 PMSrSusan (Guest): freedom to choose without compulsion, restraints or pressure
Jul 7, 5:13 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. I see
Jul 7, 5:13 PM
SrSusan (Guest): there may be other definitions
ul 7, 5:13 PMSimone (Guest): freedom to co- live with creation in the right order
ul 7, 5:14 PMCarol (Guest): Sin never grants that freedom. It coerces, manipulates
Jul 7, 5:14 PMSimone (Guest): true
Jul 7, 5:14 PMSimone (Guest): nothing makes so unfree as sin itself.. that’s why confession is such a blessing
Jul 7, 5:15 PM
SrSusan (Guest): confession in itself requires liberty of spirit
Jul 7, 5:15 PM
Simone (Guest): that’s a good point Sister
ul 7, 5:16 PMSrSusan (Guest): q Were you surprised to read that
St. Francis laughed? What is the importance of laughter in our life? And can it be unhealthy at times?
Jul 7, 5:16 PM
Simone (Guest): I think sometimes people are not aware about this tremendous freedom that is offered to us through Christ. But they are also not aware really what sin does to a human being I think
Jul 7, 5:17 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. I so can picture St. Francis laughing.. it is a good sign of a balanced spirit I find.
ul 7, 5:17 PM
Carol (Guest): Laughter is a gist of the Holy Spirit
Jul 7, 5:18 PM
Simone (Guest): do you mean that in the charismatic way Carol? Cause I don’t think it says this in the bible.
Jul 7, 5:18 PM
Dawn (Guest): good points Simone. I never thought about StF laughing . and yes it can be unhealthy at times, in excess, a temptation from the evil one. a distraction perhaps
Jul 7, 5:19 PM
Simone (Guest): laughing can be unfortunately also something that distracts us – or hinders us to go deeper at a special moment.
Jul 7, 5:19 PM
Carol (Guest): It isn’t on St Paul’s list, but I gave seen it included elsewhere along with the gift of tears
Jul 7, 5:19 PM
Dawn (Guest): like inappropriate laughing
Jul 7, 5:19 PM
SrSusan (Guest): true and while it is good it can be used badly like laughing at someone
ul 7, 5:19 PM
Simone (Guest): I guess.. it is not the action “laughing” itself that is good or bad.. but more the attitude behind it
Jul 7, 5:20 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Laughing too loudly is frowned upon in convents at least in monasteries
Jul 7, 5:20 PM
Simone (Guest): I often use in my sessions intentionally humour – when someone is stuck…it resets often
Jul 7, 5:20 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Smile is good heart happy peace is fromGod
Jul 7, 5:20 PM
SrSusan (Guest): sedate laughing is hard tho!
Jul 7, 5:21 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes smile is a beautiful gesture
Jul 7, 5:21 PM
SrSusan (Guest): and never raucous
Jul 7, 5:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): I like this Bettychao….a smile. the smile of God
Jul 7, 5:21 PM
Simone (Guest): my husband always says, that the first thing he loved about me was my laughter. .So I am glad I did not hold it back 
Jul 7, 5:21 PMSimone (Guest): my husband always says, that the first thing he loved about me was my laughter. .So I am glad I did not hold it back
ul 7, 5:22 PMBettychao (Guest): Sing praise alelluia to Jesus
ul 7, 5:22 PMSimone (Guest): I laugh a lot with my daughter.. and it has been a good way for bonding in her teenage years.
Jul 7, 5:23 PMDawn (Guest): laughter IS a good bonding with young people
Jul 7, 5:23 PMCarol (Guest): And in community too
Jul 7, 5:24 PMSimone (Guest): I think laughter can be a sign of freedom too
ul 7, 5:25 PMSrSusan (Guest): yes being open and natural with others
ul 7, 5:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): Was it St Teresa of Avila that said God please deliver me from sour saints, I dont reacall her excat quote
Jul 7, 5:25 PM
Simone (Guest): I have a picture of a laughing Jesus… people are often perplexed when they see it the first time. They never considered that Jesus might have laughed too
Jul 7, 5:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): something like that
Jul 7, 5:26 PM
Carol (Guest): I bet He did a lot. And danced at weddings
Jul 7, 5:26 PM
Simone (Guest): but it is a face that laughs out of joy – and safety – and pure bliss to be the Son of God.. it invites into this identity of lightness in our relationship to God
Jul 7, 5:26 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good thought Sr…the transperancy to be natural and open!
Jul 7, 5:26 PM
Ruth (Guest): I just watched, yesterday, the first episode of season 4 of The Chosen. I like the scene in which John is at the chopping block, Sees a soldier polishing a silver platter and realizing that it is for his head as the soldier says something like, everything has to be perfect for the birthday party, and John laughs, “I’ve ever been to a birthday party before”. Asked why he is laughing, he says, “You would it get it.” They take that to be his last words. But, seeing a lamb off in the distance (Jesus p
Jul 7, 5:26 PMSimone (Guest): I think the series “THE CHOSEN”.. .has contributed a bit to it now.. that people can imagine Jesus laughing
ul 7, 5:27 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Everyone i have to go i am happy to chat with you all jesus love you all
Jul 7, 5:27 PM
Simone (Guest): Ruth.. so funny.. I wrote my comment, before I saw yours.
Jul 7, 5:27 PM
Bettychao (Guest): By
Jul 7, 5:27 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. I have to run too.. I have another call in 3 minutes.. Sending my love to all of you. Thanks for journeying with me!
Jul 7, 5:27 PM
Carol (Guest): God bless you Betty
Jul 7, 5:28 PM
Dawn (Guest): good to visit with you Betty! blessings
Jul 7, 5:28 PM
Carol (Guest): And bless you Simonr
Jul 7, 5:28 PM
Bettychao (Guest): Next week i am not be in chat i will be in mass
Jul 7, 5:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): God bless each of you and may this week be filled with healthy laughte
ul 7, 5:28 PM
Carol (Guest): Thank you Sister!
Jul 7, 5:28 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you Simone !
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